OUaT 2x11

[netgirl_y2k]

I have to admit the last episode of Once Upon a Time conflicted me somewhat because there was a lot of awesome in it. Basically everything about Belle. I loved her getting an adventure of her own, I loved her adventure get up (those clothes! that hair! that ass!) I loved her bookishness (enjoy the lake!) and the way it was framed as just a different sort of competence. I adored her meeting up with Mulan, and my favourite thing about this show continues to be how they can throw seemingly random female characters together and make it work. I love that she saved Philip, who I find the most adorable of the not!Charmings, and that little bit of backstory about how Mulan and Philip met.

But I am increasingly unsure how I am supposed to view her relationship with Rumpelstiltskin. Like, I actually liked their origin story in Fairytale Land, mostly because the show seemed to know that after you strip away all the Disney stuff the basic Beauty & the Beast story is kind of... disturbing. Probably my favourite moment of S1 is Regina's line about not advising young women to kiss men who're holding them prisoner, I thought that was nicely meta and self-aware. And I liked that not only did Rumple let Belle go, but that Belle went.

And I actually liked them in-- was it The Crocodile? with Belle leaving until Rumple changed. But now, now it seems like he's not changing and she's not leaving.

I mean, Regina's redemption arc hasn't been perfect, it's at times been akin to watching a drunk fawn try to take her first steps, but at least you've been able to see her trying. Rumple's seems to start and stop at Belle insisting she can see the good in him. And, I dunno, maybe they aren't trying to write a similar journey for Rumple, maybe he's still meant to be the Machiavellian puppet-master, but even so Belle's blind faith shows a certain amount of willful ignorance, and does nothing to convince me that their original relationship wasn't, you know, the fairytale version of Stockholm Syndrome.

And it might actually work better for me after Belle's lost her memories and she can get to know Gold and decide for herself without all that baggage. We'll see, I guess.

And it's not that I dislike Rumpelstilskin (I'm not that interested in him, but there's really no one on this show I dislike) but Hook, Hook, of all people! had a point when he found out Rumple was trying to get back to his son; he's still essentially the same man that Bae was so desperate to change/escape from all those years ago.

I'm actually fascinated by how true love is supposed to work in this world. I mean, it works with Snow and Charming because you can see why they love each other and why they're better together than apart. But, does everyone have a true love? And if you do are you stuck with that person forever, no matter how dysfunction the relationship is?

It's also why Belle screaming I will always fight for him when Regina captured her bugged me; one, because I can see it becoming the new I will always find you, and, please, no, and two, because what I liked about them was that Belle loved him but was only prepared to be with him if he changed, and now-- not so much.

Anyway, those are my massively disjointed thoughts on Belle/Rumpelstiltskin; I am old and and crabbit and refuse to learn this fandom's ship names.

Comments

[ravenela]

Not reading the review because I have yet to see the episode, but this fandom has 'ship names? Ugh...I'm old and crotchety, too. :)

[netgirl_y2k]

Mostly I categorically refuse to call Emma/Regina Swan Queen, and they just seem to get sillier from there in... Sleeping Warrior, Red Beauty, what are you people smoking?

[ravenela]

Why would they name ships like that? How is that easier to type out than, say, Emma/Regina? Eh, weird.

[netgirl_y2k]

I think maybe it's a tumblr thing? Because the site won't let you tag things that include /, but that's no excuse and it's still stupid.

[ravenela]

Ahhh...I'm so not up on what the kids are doing these days. :)

[miarrow]

Yeah, I really like Belle as a character, but they cannot redeem Rumple at this point. He's clearly established as a character who will do anything for power. He orchestrated a huge turn of events so that he could find Bey AND retain his magic. They've put him as the cause of too many back stories for damaged characters. He'd have to find the redemption in himself and earn Belle, but making the dynamic of Belle trying to save him is awful.

Also. Belle needs to go make Ruby her beast.

I have even more uncomfortable feelings about Mulan continually used as a sort of side-kick to the white people's stories (made more apparent that she's the only POC character left on the show, unless you count Lana Parilla's actress).

[netgirl_y2k]

I wonder if any of the other characters, including Regina herself, realise exactly how much he was pulling her strings to get that curse cast. Not to excuse Regina, there's too much of that in fandom as is; she can be awful and she doesn't stop being awful just because she's my favourite, but if she's the gun then Rumple's the one pulling the trigger.

I think the thing with Rumple is that he doesn't seem to regret anything he's done, the collateral damage he's caused in pursuit of Bae. And he doesn't seem to want to change, he wants to keep Belle, so he lies to her and changes just incrementally enough, and really only when she's there to see it, to keep her believing in his essential goodness, which frankly seems cruel.

Basically, after starting well their story veered right back into what I find disturbing about the bare bones Beauty & the Beast tale, the idea that if you're patient with the beast and you love him enough then eventually he will change. And I have a lot of thoughts about exactly why Ruby would make a better beast in this instance, mostly that while the love of a good woman might help, Ruby's desire not to be a monster is internal, it comes from her first.

This was the first time I really noticed the side-lining of Mulan, and once you see it you can't help but notice how it's part of a pattern. Really, the way I'd have much preferred that to go down, because I get that the episode wanted to highlight Belle's brains and book-smarts, would have been for them to work together, with Belle tracking the monster and setting the trap to incapacitate it, and Mulan there to protect her and to finish the monster off, with Belle reading its cry for help when Mulan was going in for the kill, and that would give Mulan even more cause for her later loyalty to Philip because she felt guilty for nearly killing him when he was cursed. Um, I've overthought this again, haven't I?

[miarrow]

No! That would have been such an easy fix to the end of the episode. Also yes to everything about Rumple.

[lilacsigil]

I'm a hopeless Mulan fan so I cheer whenever she shows up, no matter for how short a time or silly a storyline!

I agree with everything about Rumplestiltskin, though - while I can, at a stretch, understand that Belle sees him changing since the whole "I promise I won't kill Regina (heh heh I'll just make a wraith do it" incident. He hasn't directly lied to her since, he helped Henry in the dream world, he didn't kill Hook. But he is absolutely not remorseful about his past, and constantly works around Belle to keep his power and control over others. Regina really is getting better (if slowly and awkwardly) but he is just the same, only better at keeping it away from Belle.

[netgirl_y2k]

Easily the best moment of the episode was Mulan's "You're a--" *punch* moment. I hope we see more of her, yes.

I wasn't surprised that Rumple helped Henry in the dream world, even at his worst as the Dark One he was always fond of children, what did surprise me was that Belle didn't react more strongly to Hook's revelation about what happened to Mila, especially after Rumple had squirmed out of telling her about it earlier on; lies of omission still being lies.

But that's the thing about Rumple, he isn't sorry for the things he's done, he's sorry that Belle finds out about them, which I would be a lot less uncomfortable with if it seemed like Belle knew that.

[swatkat]

I would be a lot comfortable with Belle/Rumple if I could tell whether the show knows how disturbing it is. It seemed as though they were aware of it back when they first introduced this storyline, but now I can't tell, and that makes me uncomfortable. Because they really did right by Belle in the past storyline, and yet here they had her watch Rumple attempt to beat Hook to death and still stay by his side, because she sees the possibility of a change in him - a change Rumple himself does not entirely seem to see the need for, at least, not now, not when he has more to gain by being who he is. And that's disturbing, but I don't entirely know if the show knows how disturbing it is?

I don't think he's going to get a straightforward redemption story right now the way Regina is, but the show also has stuck to its point about monsters sometimes needing saviours of their own (this episode pointedly juxtaposed Belle's rescue of Philip with the Rumple storyline) and that's something I do appreciate.

It's also why Belle screaming I will always fight for him when Regina captured her bugged me

ITA. And then it made me sad because the only person who's ever said this about Regina is Cora.

I believe the ship name is Rumbelle, so you're better off not learning it.

[netgirl_y2k]

YES, it started off so well and then, with this episode, took a sharp turn back towards the creepy and disturbing, and maybe that was why this episode jarred so badly with me, because what had come before had felt so smart and self-aware, whereas this was reminiscent of too many other shows with unknowing and unfortunate subtext.

I don't know-- maybe it was meant as a prelude to the end of the episode, Belle forgetting Rumple being more tragic if she's totally devoted to him, rather than rightly a bit wary of him. I do wonder how that plot is going to shake out, because I could get behind Belle getting to know Gold without the weight of their shared past or the pressure of the fairytale version of true love.

I do feel sad that Regina doesn't have someone who believes in her utterly, even though I know it's better for her, Belle's unwavering devotion not doing Rumple any favours, I don't think. I did have to laugh at Henry going from "let's build an armoury because Regina," to "yeah, I knew my mom didn't do it" in five seconds flat. I mean I know kids are changeable, but.

[frayadjacent]

Hi there! I totally agree with this assessment, as well as your and miarrow's remarks upthread about Mulan's consistent sidelining. It was nice to read because I felt vaguely uncomfortable with both aspects as I was watching, but your comments really spelled out *why*.

Also, I just want to see the female characters interact more. It's about 90% of what I like about the show. I so much more enjoy watching Belle interact with Ruby (I sort of ship them, but I also love watching them as friends) than Rumple, and I'm actually kind of upset that the show is re-emphasizing Philip in Mulan and Aurora's story. I mean, I guess it'll be an opportunity to see more of Mulan and learn how she got her amazing hairstyle, but Mulan/Aurora in particular is such an in your face pairing that I'm starting to get frustrated with it being subtext. It's 2013 for chrissakes! It's about time for the subtext to be text. But the way the story is going, I'm rapidly losing hope for any canonical non-hetero relationships.

[netgirl_y2k]

Oh yeah, when it comes to having a variety of female characters and focusing on their relationships with each other Once is basically all I want in a show (except for the lesbianism, there could be more lesbianism) and I'm continually astonished by how the show can be so good at femslashy subtext, and so very meh at their canon het romances. On a less facetious note, the show's pushing of the One True Heterosexual Love does discomfit me somewhat.

Belle's interactions with Ruby were adorable - more of that, please show! - and I love their friendship as well as shipping them as an alternative take on Beauty & the Beast.

I'm torn on Philip's return, because I do find him adorable, in a way none of the other prince-ly characters have been to me so far, and girls having adventures and saving their princes is a big narrative kink of mine, possibly only just surpassed by princesses and their devoted lady knights (as you can imagine Aurora & Mulan do things to me) but--

The thing is, haven't we already done true love's kiss and questing for your love with Snow and Charming? And I really, really don't like the idea of making Aurora-Philip-Mulan into a love triangle, or if we must could we not have Mulan in love with Aurora instead?

And I'm aware this was a very long comment for me to basically say: I want some canon lesbians, dammit!

[ein_papier]

I'd like to think that it is wilful ignorance on Belle's side; I think she's always been wrong about what Rumple being capable of love and being human means about his general decency. But I also get the impression that her "I will always fight for him" was meant to be taken as positive, so who knows. :/

[netgirl_y2k]

I think she's always been wrong about what Rumple being capable of love and being human means about his general decency.

Ooh, that's so interesting, I'd never thought of it that way, and I don't think Belle has either, but of course you're entirely right. Rumple not being a monster doesn't make him a nice guy, and after everything I doubt he can ever go back to being the guy he was before he was the Dark One, or that he'd want to.

The I will always fight for him line made me uncomfortable because it isn't, or at least shouldn't be Belle's job to save him, if Rumple even wants or needs saving, which is far from a foregone conclusion.

[cleo]

The part that really made me cringe was when Rumple told Belle he expected her to do as he asked and go lock herself in the library. I understand his need to protect her both from becoming a casualty of his battles and from seeing him at his worst, but the extreme sexism there really surprised me coming from him. Had it been Bae he would have said the same because he always will see Bae as a child. But I doubt that would have come out to a male lover. Of course that goes to my personal belief that his love for Belle is largely paternal (and messed up! Hooray!).

I had just as hard a time with Belle watching him beat Hook. But they are more interesting as a couple to me where she accepts that he can't go back to being "good" but still makes an effort to keep him from becoming worse. I don't think it would ever be that settled, so the back and forth is getting bothersome because it really just makes Belle look less awesome than she is. But I think there's no way that Rumple can change because he's the real villain. We know Cora probably won't be around forever, and Regina is trying to change. So to avoid a villain of the week, the show needs Rumple.

Honestly, I have huge issues with Regina's sole motivation as a baddie being that her mom killed her boyfriend and it was Snow's fault. I liked her better when she was just power hungry and evil and pissed at Snow for getting in the way for reasons unspecified. I thought she was a stronger character without the Daniel part of her backstory. But I love an irredeemable villainess. I'll take a redeamae one too, but I don't want one that's bad because some dude spurned her or some dude died. *sigh* But I digress...

I think we all agree that the show needs more Mulan right now, though!

(Apologies for typos. Wrote this one my phone.)

[netgirl_y2k]

Yes, more Mulan. More Aurora. Canon femslash. What? Who said that!?

I'm not the biggest fan of Regina's Daniel backstory (I only like it a tiny bit because I am a huge fan of Lana Parrilla's kicked puppy face) but I have to admit to handwaving it somewhat; I think we all do that to a certain extent with our particular favourites, adding things that didn't happen on screen and ignoring others to make them make sense in our heads. So I've been assuming that it wasn't just Daniel's death that sent Regina over the edge, it was her borderline abusive upbringing by Cora and being married off unwillingly to some guy twice her age who she didn't even like, Daniel was just the straw that broke the camel's back. But, yeah, that's all headcanon, and I admit, much as I love her, Regina in Evil Queen mode became less interesting to me as a villainess when it became clear that her main motivation was a blood feud against an eight year old.

It's interesting you mention Rumple's love of Belle being largely paternal, especially with the way they met in Storybrooke being a helpless Belle being sent to Gold for protection, and with Belle now having lost her memory. Which is, actually, another thing-- does Belle even have a Storybrooke persona to remember, given that she was Regina's prisoner for the entirety of the curse, or is she a blank slate now?

It was why I liked Belle's burgeoning friendship with Ruby so much, it was part of her becoming less dependent of Rumple, which I liked a lot.

[cleo]

Canon femslash yes plz! Can we have some Mulan/Aurora/Emma too?!

I wish there was a little more backstory on Cora besides "learned magic/became social climber" or whatever. If there's a relationship that tortured, I want a good reason why or imma make one up because of my obsession with older women and the fact that Cora is hot one day. I mean pleasing this woman clearly meant a lot to young Regina; there's a depth of feeling there that makes the issues between them interesting. I really like misplaced and misguided love plots.

Belle/Ruby! I could definitely go for that pairing. It's sad that what little Belle development we've gotten is now gone because of the memory thing.