Winter is Here

[netgirl_y2k]

I managed to peel myself away from the fall of the British government in real time (good fucking grief) long enough to watch the season finale of Game of Thrones.

I have really, really enjoyed the sixth season, especially after finding season five excessively weak. And I do think that one of the biggest problems with it, and to a lesser extent season four, was that they were pootling around in gentle circles hoping that Martin would publish another book. And that once they gave up on that, it was full steam ahead.


The big thing I think the show did really well this year was pare down a dozen separate plotlines down to basically three.

1) Starks in the North
2) Mad Queen Cersei
3) Everyone else falling into line behind Dany

-Starks/the North

Of the many, many character deaths this season brought the only one that really surprised me was Rickon's. I think I'd read too many fics over the years where he turned up just to be the deus ex Stark in Winterfell. But, of course, Sansa was right, once Rickon was in Ramsey's hands there was no saving him. And I think it was one of the most interesting things about Sansa this season was how clear-eyed/cold-hearted (delete according to preference) she was about that.

On Jon being King in the North I have mixed feelings. I always figured that the Sansa as Queen in the North stuff was pie in the sky wish-fulfilment, and honestly going forward it's going to be the war against the Others, and Jon's the guy you want in charge for that. But. But Sansa was the driving force behind taking back Winterfell, she had the best read on Ramsey as an opponent, and she's the reason the Knights of the Vale came. Jon was right when he said that she should be Lady of Winterfell. I'm not sure there should even be a King or Queen in the North. Does nobody remember what happened with the last King in North debacle? Lyanna Mormont has been one of the best things this season, but maybe this is why you shouldn't let angry ten year olds be kingmakers.

Fuck off, Littlefinger. Don't listen to him, Sansa! I really, really hope that they aren't going to go for a sort of Sansa versus Jon power struggle. She doesn't seem entirely to be buying what Littlefinger's selling, but she doesn't seem entirely sold on the White Wolf/King in the North stuff either. I hope Brienne gets back soon, at the very least to be the angel on Sansa's other shoulder.

Bran is essentially the exposition fairy now, which I don't mind because I am easy for narrative momentum and we've got to get this show on the road!

Arya and Frey Pies was an awesome little book nod. Although I am still not sure how she is not dead of those sucking abdominal wounds. Truly, her plot armour is strong.

-King's Landing

I know this season has been confirming fan theories hand over fist (I think this is less laziness on the part of the showrunners, and more that with all the time between books fans have figured out out most of the salient plot points) but the Cersei destroys King's Landing with wildfire theory was never one that I'd paid much attention to. Partly because I've never been over-invested in events in King's Landing, and partly because I'd just assumed that Cersei's trial was going to end in Cleganebowl. But of course once the High Sparrow had disallowed trial by combat there was no other way it was going to end. And, hey, at least she confined herself to only burning the Great Sept and not the whole of King's Landing. Faint praise, I know.

Tommen's suicide felt a bit ad hoc. Like they knew they wanted to end the season with Mad Queen Cersei, and had to kill her last remaining child to get her there.

I am glad that Margaery got her last moment of figuring out what Cersei was up to, even if it was too late.

-Dany/Everyone Else

The other reason Margaery's death didn't bother me was that I really appreciated the way they showed that all these other plots (the Tyrell deaths, the Kingsmoot, whatever the fuck was going on with Dorne) as being reasons that all these disparate Houses would support Dany.

I think we can all agree that Dorne was the worst part of a generally weak fifth season. And I feel like killing off the lion's share of those characters and then ignoring it for nine episodes was a good adaptation impulse. But it redeemed itself ever so slightly with me for having the iconic 'vengeance, justice, fire and blood' line delivered from Ellaria to Olenna. And one of the reasons I am sad that they didn't go with Sansa as Queen in the North is that apart from Jon all the other major players now are women.

Dany breaking up with Daario by giving him a city was a bit weird. On the one hand Daario is pretty much the worst person to leave in charge of Meereen, on the other GRRM has been trying to disentangle Dany from Meereen for twelve years and the show managed it with one (admittedly terrible) line. And trumping all that, Dany is on her way to Westeros. She has her fleet, her dragons, the Unsullied, and the Dothraki. Of course, she had all those things at the end of season four; which is what I mean when I talk about the show treading water for two years. But that final scene was kickfuckingass!

The mildly depressing thing is that as soon as the show overtook the book I felt my interest in eventually reading The Winds of Winter diminishing. Cynically though, I'm pretty sure that any lingering interest GRRM may have had in finishing the series pretty much vanished as soon as the show overtook him.

More cheerfully, I am excited that got_exchange is back up and running just when I'm getting excited about the fandom again.

Comments

[saturnofthemoon]

I'm going to miss Margaery. I can handle her death, but show Margaery seemed to understand the game more than other ladies on the show. At least we get to keep her awesome grandmother.

I actually tweeted that Cersei was going to blow up King's Landing as a sort of joke and then....wow, I am amazed that she did it.

Sansa probably will be queen of the north once Jon finds out his parentage and hops on a dragon, but I think there will be some conflict in between.

I might write for got_exchange, so I can request Dany/Yara fic.

[netgirl_y2k]

I always sort of thought Jon would end up as King in the North eventually, but I figured it would be after his parentage was revealed; to the other characters, I mean, not just to us. And I'm a bit leery of any conflict between Sansa and Jon, because I don't think there's any way for Sansa to come out of that looking good.

Oh, I definitely plan to both request and offer Dany/Yara in my sign up. It was such an unexpected highpoint of the season.

[woldy]

I predict plenty of readers for Dany/Yara fic! :-D

[dhampyresa]

Fuck I need to go back into watching Game of Thrones.

[netgirl_y2k]

I think that's not an uncommon sentiment this year...

But last season especially was so dismal that it's not hard to understand why viewers would have jumped ship. I only stuck with it because I just want to know how the story ends - and I'm increasingly convinced the books will never be finished.

[dhampyresa]

I'm not surprised. Last season was so bad, SO BAD.

[woldy]

TBH, we never learned enough about Rickon for me to care about him dying, and I'm not sure Sansa would care that much either. The last time Sansa saw him he was a whiny toddler without much discernible personality except that he had a vicious and uncontrollable wolf. Moreover, his survival would undermine both her claim to Winterfell and Jon's claim, even though Rickon is too young, inexperienced, and unknown (that's what comes of years pretending to be dead!) to have the faintest hope of holding Winterfell or the North. Letting Ramsay kill Rickon served everyone's interest (except maybe Rickon, but even then there are worse deaths).

I'm with you on the King in the North thing being a terrible, terrible idea. The North needs food and fuel for the winter, plus a plan and weapons for killing the Others. More war with the Lannisters is surely the last thing they need. With you on Tommen's suicide being under-written too.

[netgirl_y2k]

idk, if Sansa really did want to make a play for Winterfell a young, inexperienced male relative who she could rule through might be her best bet... but I totally agree that he was always more of a minor plot than a character, and that once he was in Ramsey's hands a quick death was probably the best that could be hoped for.

Also, given that the northern lords haven't actually seen Jon do anything more impressive than nearly lose the battle of the bastards, I'm at a loss as to why they think he deserves the title of white wolf/king in the north.

[woldy]

But could Rickon be trusted to be 'ruled through'? Sansa hasn't seen him in years, and insofar as the behavior of each Stark's wolf reflects the owner's character I would expect Rickon to be angry, undisciplined and struggle to tell his friends from his enemies. Even the fact that he ran from Ramsay showed very bad judgement - it made him look weak, frightened, and dishonored, whereas if he had walked away with his head held high then Ramsey would have looked bad for shooting him in the back. Plus, everyone thought Rickon was dead for years and years, so she'd have to convince people that this *was* Rickon and not an imposter as a pre-requisite to claiming Winterfell for him. People know Sansa is alive and she's recognisably herself, so it might be easier to claim Winterfell on her own behalf.

given that the northern lords haven't actually seen Jon do anything more impressive than nearly lose the battle of the bastards, I'm at a loss as to why they think he deserves the title of white wolf/king in the north.
YES. He totally screwed up that battle, and there is the elephant-in-the-room question about why he is even there. If he's alive then he should still be in the Nights Watch, and the penalty for desertion is death. He may say he's freed from his vow to the Nights Watch by being dead, but that requires him to tell everyone that he's dead and wouldn't they have concerns? Like, can he father children? Is he evil? How long can be continue walking around and talking? I'd be very worried about crowning a dead man as King, especially given that he was resurrected by a priestess of an alien and fundamentalist religion.

[netgirl_y2k]

Walking away with his head held high might have been a bit much to ask of a terrified adolescent, but damn, the kid could have stood to throw a few zigs and zags in there.

YES. People should be a lot more freaked out by Jon being back from the dead. JON should be more freaked out by Jon being back from the dead.

[fyrdrakken]

This season definitely made me care about this fandom again. I'm in agreement that Jon being named King in the North is a bit of a jump the show didn't really do all the groundwork for -- presumably to set him up to be dealing with Littlefinger trying to get him out of the way on the one hand and having Dany come in and view him as a threat to her throne on the other hand (instead of allying with him against the Others like she needs to). Or else it's to make him a big enough deal that Dany is ready to consider marrying him when Bran shows up with his revelation about Jon's parentage.

It has been pointed out that the sample chapters GRRM has released have been carefully selected to emphasize that the show has gone in some completely different directions (as in Sansa's plotline and the whole Dorne business, and also no Aegon coming in as a rival "Targaryen" claimant -- though some of those plot points with the Targaryen pretender might be shifted to Jon in the TV show) and so it can't be taken as entirely indicative of the end of the book series. But still. I did not see GRRM's interview with Stephen King, but I saw the GIF set floating around of him asking King if there are ever days when he can't write a sentence without hating it and just putters around checking e-mail wasting time online instead..., and King was like, "NO."

One of the things I've been doing since I started caring about this fandom again was starting to listen to some podcasts, and one I unsubscribed from because I was sick of hearing the hosts sharing wrongful opinions. The most damning of these was the guy who ships Littlefinger/Sansa and thinks they'd actually make a good couple, and I'm like, "How many times have you actually read the books?!" So, yeah, the setup is Littlefinger trying to work Sansa around to side with him against Jon, and either she's pretending to believe him but she's still suspicious, or else she finds out how instrumental a role he played in setting the Starks and Lannisters against each other. Is what I'm hoping, anyway, though I'm sure Littlefinger is able to cause a few problems for Jon (and eventually Dany) along the way.

[netgirl_y2k]

Part of the reason I stopped reading the preview chapters is that they're increasingly feeling a bit passive aggressive. I mean, the people insisting that GRRM should be chained to his keyboard, or concern-trolling about his age and health are behaving like dicks of the first order. But at the same time, put up or shut up, dude.

The other reason is that the last one I did read was a Sansa chapter which didn't make me excited about the direction of Sansa's story, or exactly fill me with a sense of narrative urgency.

Yeah, Jon needing to be a big enough deal for Dany to consider marrying does dovetail nicely with Dany leaving Daario behind for the stated reason that she'll need to consider a political marriage once she reaches Westeros. Dany/Jon is a ship about which I have precisely zero thoughts or feelings, so it will entirely depend on how it pans out onscreen, if indeed that's the endgame.

Do you have any recs for podcasts? Discounting, of course, the one with the bad wrong Sansa/Littlefinger opinions.

[fyrdrakken]

I think if any major characters get killed off at the very end of things, like wiping out the Others and destroying the threat of the White Walkers for good, Jon is the most likely. So there's that.

A Podcast of Ice and Fire has the wrongful host (and it's got an ungodly long archive, being mostly book-fandom-based and having a lot of episodes about people doing a reread and discussing chapters or whatever) -- I mention it because it's apparently a big deal and if you go looking for ASoIaF podcasts you'll probably run across it.

The Boiled Leather podcast is a keeper, and there's one I need to check out called Boars, Gore and Swords. I haven't really run across any others, aside from this one that only posted a very few episodes and hasn't done much for a year or two.