Football and Game of Thrones (I am a woman of many and varied interests)

[netgirl_y2k]

I have been watching a truly outrageous amount a football these last few days. With the time difference from Brazil the first game of the day starts just as I get in of an evening, and the last is finishing at about the time I put my jammies on and climb under the duvet with my teddy bear - and it is proving shockingly easy to do little else.

I actually wasn't that excited about the world cup; a combination of the controversy and upset it was causing in Brazil, and a lack of hoopla on the part of of the BBC which had suppressed my usual Scottish Oh, God, anyone but England tendencies. I've tried to explain this to my English friends, that it's not the idea of England winning that most Scots object to, it's the fact that we get the English commentators and analysts and sports news, and can't stop hearing about bloody England, even in the commentary of totally unrelated games. That, and going on past form, if they actually did manage to win we'd be hearing about it for the next three hundred years.

But a lot of the football has actually been really good. I have been turned into a Holland fan, and think if they don't top their group it'll only be because they've been too busy picking bits of Spaniard out of their studs to train. I am also supporting Germany; partly because I've really liked Germany whenever I've been there, and partly because I like it when they contrive to beat England, ideally on penalties.

I unwisely played a tiny bit of football when I was first in uni. Partly because running around a muddy field in the fresh air was a great way to shake off a hangover, and partly because I thought it would be a great way to meet girls. The reason I gave it up was threefold: 1) I was shit at it; 2) an equally effective, if not superior way to shake off a hangover was to eat a bacon roll, drink half a pint of irn bru, and go back to sleep until the Eastenders omnibus came on; and 3) well, any girl who liked the sporty type went for the actual sporty lesbians; fortunately for me there were other girls who liked the bookish, indoorsy sort of lesbian.

My presence on tumblr has become even more intermittent than it usually is. After some experimenting I have decided that the only sensible way to approach tumblr is to not even try to keep up with it. I look at it when I've got the computer on, but not actually for anything in particular, and then I scroll back until I either get bored or my browser starts struggling. And that's worked quite well for me, but right now a few people I follow are liveblogging the world cup, and more than a few are really pissed off about the Game of Thrones finale, so--

In between all the football I did manage to watch the Game of Thrones finale, largely because, like a lot of people, I was having trouble caring about the outcome of Iran v. Nigeria.


-First thing, I was spoiled for the lack of Lady Stoneheart, and although I couldn't agree more that an appearance from Stoneheart would have made for an epic final scene, I wasn't really expecting her so it wasn't a disappointment.

I have to say, I would have more sympathy for Alex Graves' stated view that it would have been a waste to bring a brilliant actress like Michelle Fairley back for one scene as a zombie, if the show hadn't spent the better part of two seasons utterly wasting her as Cat.

-The less said about the final Tyrion and Shae scene the better. Suffice it to say that the show wrote themselves into a corner by changing Shae's character and the nature of the Tyrion and Shae romance so much; then they did a piss poor job of writing themselves out of it, firstly by refusing to change the book ending, and second by rushing through it in the hope that if they glossed over the whole thing no one would notice that it made no sense for the characters or relationship as written on the show.

I've said it before: I don't mind it when the show deviates from the books, I mind when they deviate from their own established continuity and characterisation. If you're going to use the butterfly effect as an excuse, by all means, own it, embrace it.

-Elsewhere, Brienne and the Hound have a duel to discover who is the more rubbish surrogate parent for Arya Stark. Given that Arya wandered off without either of them noticing while they were knocking each other senseless, I'd say they're both equally useless.

Also, it pains me to admit it, but I haven't much liked Brienne this season. Letting Arya get away, as well as being in King's Landing without ever, it seems, speaking to Sansa, makes her seem utterly useless as a saviour/bodyguard. Plus, I haven't liked her dynamic with Pod. I didn't mind it when I thought it the beginning of an odd couple mentor-mentee relationship, but now Brienne just seems mean.

And while season four is the one that has cemented my view that the books and show are two entirely separate animals, I do feel compelled to say this: If Sansa had still been there when Brienne reached King's Landing in the books, nothing would have stopped her from immediately laying her sword at the girl's feet and apologising for not being able to save her mother; after which Sansa would not have been out of Brienne's sight long enough for Littlefinger, or anybody else, to squirrel her away.

That said, the Arya & the Hound was a relationship that really did work, more so in the show than the books, I thought. I loved Arya and Brienne talking about their swords and learning to fight before everything went tits up. Oh, what could have been. And the Brienne v. the Hound grudge match was well done.

-Speaking of fight scenes, I loved Meera Reed battling the wights, especially after that nonsense at Craster's. And I didn't mind Jojen's death, admittedly it's been a while since I revisited ADwD, but if he's not already dead then he's as good as.

I also didn't object to Pyp and Grenn dying as the penultimate episode. They could show as many sweeping battle shots and falling redshirts as they liked, unless it affected the Night's Watch members we knew and cared about it wasn't going to have any poignancy.

-Despite having had huge issues with season four; both with things that happened (Jaime's rape of Cersei, Craster's, Shae) and with the things that didn't (this season had massive pacing problems; even when things were happening nothing seemed to be happening, Stannis decided to go to the Wall in the final episode of season three, and arrived in the final episode of season four) I will still be watching, and even have hopes for season five.

They are out of book plot for a few characters, namely Sansa and Bran, Dany's Meereen storyline is reaching its I have made a huge mistake portion, which if dragged out will make for even less compelling viewing than it did reading. A lot of the other plots are languishing in the wilds of AFfC/ADwD.

The show isn't the books. They can't afford to spend a season or two exploring sideplots and introducing more and more new characters while the narrative, and the characters we have come to think of Our Heroes, meander in circles. If they want to end it in seven or eight seasons things have to start moving. Whether they move in a direction GRRM has told them about, or it's extremely expensive and beautifully filmed fanfiction, I think that's a good thing.

Also, also. Next year I would like less rape and some naked dudes. Please and thank you.

Comments

[adafrog]

partly because I've really liked Germany whenever I've been there, and partly because I like it when they contrive to beat England, ideally on penalties.

lolol

I only have watched bits of it while I am eating pizza at my pizza joint. *shrugs*

[netgirl_y2k]

Possibly I overstated my indifference to an England victory this time.

Pizza is a great football food, yes.

[umadoshi]

I waffled about asking even this much, but is Lady Stoneheart a significant presence in the books? I'd figured she would be, from what very little I know about her, but simply leaving her out of the show so far makes me curious enough to ask. Would it have been "one scene as a zombie" in this season, with more to do later, or would that have been it overall?

[netgirl_y2k]

I think everyone had been expecting Lady Stoneheart to be the cliffhanger to the season so it would have been one scene, most likely only one shot. As for more later... that's actually an interesting question. Stoneheart has a definite presence, but no lines; she can't speak, since Cat had her throat cut. So how the show would handle that, or whether the actor would even be willing to come back for a non-speaking part, I don't know.

And we're also running out of book canon - her storyline intersects with Brienne and Pod, as well as Jaime, all stories that already differ significantly from the books - so there's simply no way to know how important she'll ultimately be; whether she'll be important in the plot sense, or only thematically.

Basically, cutting her might matter hugely, or it might be a judicious trimming of a dangling plot thread. But at this stage the books and the show have differed in so many significant ways that crying "that didn't happen in the books!" is just howling into the wilderness.

[umadoshi]

Ahh, okay. Thanks! That's good to know.

[fyrdrakken]

I kind of enjoyed the bits with Brienne running around King's Landing having conversations with characters she never shared a scene with in the books, since it was a variety of fanfic I like. The thing where characters like Cat and Jaime (in the books, too, IIRC) considered Sansa to be pretty irrevocably irretrievable once they learned of her marriage to Tyrion I attributed to Westeros having that view of marriage that makes the wife into the husband's property (and no longer that of her parents). So I'll handwave slightly that Brienne didn't present herself to Sansa offering to help spirit her out of King's Landing (and take her to -- who? She definitely had a shortage of surviving known family members by this season), but agreed that she would and should have attached herself to Sansa's side as a bodyguard, and that it was a bit of plotting in terms of "returning to the book storyline" that made no sense for the characterization and the show's deviations from the book.

Okay, now that I take a minute to contemplate the matter, that bit where Brienne offered herself to Arya and got blown off would have been useful had it been with Sansa instead: Brienne coming to Sansa and getting sent away on the grounds that, "It's too late, I'm a Lannister now, you've failed my mother and Renly before her, and BTW you've put entirely too much faith in songs and stories because real life isn't like that." If I had the brain space to write ASoIaF fic, I'd contemplate a fixit showing that scene as being something that occurred offscreen, to explain why Brienne remained at loose ends. A scene or two of shadowing Sansa out of a sense of responsibility (but from a bit of a distance, her presence not being welcome), she gets tangled up in the confusion of the crowd reaction at Joffrey's death and Sansa disappears with Brienne never seeing where she went, and then she still has grounds to leave King's Landing trying to find Sansa and offer her protection again (now that she's presumably desperate enough to take it).

I did like the scene where she met Arya and they nearly bonded for a few seconds -- the fight with the Hound had to happen for Arya to leave him for dead and head for Bravos, and I liked the way it underscored how he now actually felt responsible for her. Arya's reaction to Brienne's offer would have made as much sense coming from Sansa, but it was so very frustrating in the books having all these missed meetings that would have presumably altered the plot in ways that improved matters for the characters -- I kind of appreciated having one of those meetings actually happen and things still not work out as well as they might have. (Well, for Brienne. For Arya, going to Bravos is a major character arc that will no doubt have some major effects on the future storyline.)

Regarding the next season, we've got Sansa learning cunning from Littlefinger (and getting an inkling of how central a piece she is for his own plans for power in Westeros -- given that he planned a marriage for her that would give her a claim for three of the seven kingdoms as the heiress to Winterfell, widow of the last legal heir to Casterly Rock, and now wife to the lord of the Aerie -- and quite possibly figuring out the role he played in bringing about her family's downfall and starting to lay quiet plans for revenge), and Bran training (and maybe getting some missing backstory that was flashbacks in the books but not shown in the series, by way of visions he sees -- the anvillicious hints that Jon Snow is Lyanna's son and half a Targaryen haven't made it to the show, and if that turns out to be an important plot point it shouldn't come completely out of left field when it becomes a factor). Dany's storyline in Meereen dragged way the fuck out, but since we're getting AFfC/ADwD simultaneously now, we can also be getting the first of her new suitors taking ship for the east and heading for Meereen to start bugging her. (More Martells, yay! I'm looking forward to Arianne and all the Sand Snakes.) Oh, and the plotline with the kid who may or may not be another Targaryen heir (though I'm inclined to believe he is, because Varys was involved and with the city under siege it was a foreseeable risk that the royal babies would be targets if the invaders got in).

Some characters are going to have more showtime than others next season, but I think it's a pretty good bet that the show's writers have been getting to read what GRRM has of the next book (as well as no doubt having him give the word on what dangling plot threads he expects to remain important). And I think a lot of the new characters are going to be required for the conclusion of the epic. (If nothing else, because so many of the old characters have been killed off. I hope Pod remains a living hostage with Lady Stoneheart rather than having died, and that the Hound did indeed get found and tended and go become a monk, even if he doesn't show up in the story as a mover of plot again.)

[netgirl_y2k]

I think it's one of those agree to disagree things, in that I'm totally convinced the Targaryen kid (Aegon VI) is a fake. Varys couldn't have known that Aegon would be killed (he may have suspected, but pretty much everyone seemed shocked that Tywin would go so far, and even Tywin hid behind the excuse that the Mountain was acting without orders) and he certainly couldn't know that Aegon would be killed in a manner that rendered his body unidentifiable, or that anyone who could possible have pointed out the swap would also be dead. On the other hand I wouldn't put it past him to take advantage of all this after the fact by finding a kid with more or less the Targaryen colouring. And from the Doylist perspective, the legitimate but presumed dead heir to the throne being smuggled away as an infant and raised in a different land? Isn't that awfully pat and one of those high fantasy tropes that GRR Martin is so fond of subverting.

Much like you, I love characters who never shared a scene in the books getting to meet (it's my preferred brand of fanfic) and the Brienne and Margaery scenes in King's Landing were amongst my favourite of the season. I just sometimes think that these scenes, taken in isolation, they're brilliant, but sometimes they rip open bigger plot holes further down the line.

Like, I truly think the show either needs to start hewing closer to the books, or just doing its own thing entirely. Because this, this, veering away from the books, then panicking and veering back, regardless of how little sense it makes in light of the changes you've already made, that's the show's biggest weakness right now.

I really liked the Brienne - Hound fight for a bunch of reasons, but, yeah, it reveals how responsible the Hound feels for Arya. It's not really about Sandor's feelings, okay he's sort of adopted her, but Arya doesn't want to go with Brienne so as far as Sandor is concerned that means she's not going. Which is why Sandor (much as he's not a character I like) is the best of Arya's sketchy surrogate father figures.

That's a really good point, actually, about the lack of R+L=J hints. I mean, if it's going to be the big series plot twist, as practically everyone has been expecting for about ten years now, you'd think the show would be laying the groundwork for that.

But, really, I think the thing going into S5 is not that they couldn't drag the existing Sansa-Bran-Dany plotlines out for another series or two, it's that if the want to end the show in seven seasons, eight maximum, they really shouldn't, even if that means leaving the books behind.

[fyrdrakken]

Varys couldn't have known the baby would be killed -- but OTOH, with the king already dead or at obvious risk of being killed pretty quickly once the city was taken, that baby was heir to the throne, and too important a gamepiece to leave in the hands of the army at the gates of the city. The absolute best-case scenario would be that Robert would just keep the child as a ward, make himself regent, and eventually marry the baby to a Baratheon daughter -- but then again, so many accidents and illness can befall a small child, and that was a lot of trust to place in someone who'd just risen up against his king. And the thing isn't that Varys was expecting everyone who could ID the kid to be dead, but rather that the people who knew the baby on sight loved him and were in on the deception and wouldn't speak up about the substitution until the time was right to bring the True Heir to the Throne back into the public eye. Also there's the thing where I don't recall anything in the POV chapters of young Aegon's foster father indicating that he thought he was raising anything but the real Aegon Targaryen. Which means either the fake Targaryen orphan was set up with an appropriate foster father to establish a backstory and "credentials" for the fake heir immediately after the loss of the real baby (in effect, Varys acting in hindsight for what he wished he'd had the forethought to do), or it's the real kid. And having the True Heir appear from obscurity to take the throne and have no one at all particularly give a shit, having him overshadowed by half a dozen rival claimants to the throne (including his own aunt and possibly a half-brother) and maybe never getting near the throne at all (or having him distract lots of players for long enough for Dany to swoop in and claim the throne), would be pretty subversive.

That is indeed a big problem, that the show doesn't know the ending and thus doesn't know which characters and plot threads it can get away with trimming yet. I wonder if they had some issues with writing a number of scripts and only then having GRRM mention that such-and-such is important, or having him realize partway through the draft of the current book that something he told them could be cut is going to be important after all. I have a sneaking suspicion that, given HBO's track record with some of its series, they'be been kind of figuring there's a very good chance the show is going to wind up being cancelled before they completely run out of plot from the books. (Especially with them starting to stretch a single book to cover multiple seasons. They might get three seasons out of AFfc/ADwD considering how much material is jammed into that chronological period.)

I'm still of course hoping for the big series plot twist being that Sansa winds up using her Littlefinger-trained skills to turn on him, take vengeance for his role in the downfall of her family, and become the third head of the dragon, while Jon Snow lives out his life (or undeath) on the Wall, if he isn't permanently killed in combat. I think there could be room to expand Sansa's storyline quite a bit next season. (Much like I loved the way the show gave us Arya as Tywin's incognito near-apprentice for a while there when they barely even met (if at all) in the books, I could stand to see a lot of Sansa learning guile and gathering material to use against Littlefinger in the end.)