You May Survive Us, Yet

[netgirl_y2k]

You know, I could not watch this show, and just spend an hour wibbling behind a cushion with a glass of wine to much the same effect.


-You know, I kind of hate to say it, but I wonder if the show is starting to spread itself too thin? It's starting to feel like you spend five minutes with a group of characters, then are told to come back in a fortnight for the next five minutes. And I know it was the same in S1 but there it felt like there was the main thread of Ned in King's Landing with the various subplots running around it, now it feels much more like five separate main plots that we're following in five minute increments each.

-I suspect there wasn't a way to film the Melisandre giving birth to the shadow that wasn't lulzy, but, still.

-Okay, enough of that.

-Dany! Okay, I am on Team Dragon Queen till the end, and I while I find Dany making threats that she has no way to carry out oddly arousing, and I adored her affronted look when the Thirteen asked to see her dragons (Do you have any idea how much CGI costs? We've already had a direwolf in this episode!) and while, yes, when her dragons are grown she will indeed be able to burn kingdoms down, they're not grown yet. Maybe play nicely now and kill people later?

-Speaking of killing people later, Arya. I loved the origin of her prayer/death list. And how fucking gorgeous is the Harrenhal set? I may actually like it more than the Eyrie. And, bloody hell, did my mind gloss over exactly how the Mountain's men were torturing people in the books because what an awful, awful way to die. You know you're surrounded by lunatics when Tywin Lannister rocks up and you go, Oh, thank god, someone sane. I did love him instantly knowing Arya was a girl.

-Sansa. Can't talk. Dead of feelings. "Lady Stark, you may survive us yet." Damn straight, she will! Also, I am choosing to view that line as foreshadowing.

-Also, curse you show for casting Peter Dinklage as Tyrion, I foresee me having many confusing feelings about the Sansa/Tyrion stuff.

-Shipping Dany and Sansa forever though. Queen of Fire, meet Lady Ice.

-Totally onboard with whoever it was first came up with the theory of Dany, Sansa & Tyrion as the three heads of the dragon, yes.

Comments

[karatam]

I need fic where Dany is the Queen in the South and Sansa is the Queen in the North and Tyrion and Arya are the Hand of the Queens and the General of their armies. Or something.

Why does Tyrion have to be Peter Dinklage, he makes me want to forgive some of the douchier things Tyrion does because of his awesome.

(also Sophie Turner and Emilia Clarke's faces)

[netgirl_y2k]

I need fic where Dany is the Queen in the South and Sansa is the Queen in the North and Tyrion and Arya are the Hand of the Queens and the General of their armies. Or something.

I need many, many fics and possibly for this to be the endgame of the series.

However much time I spend hiding behind soft furnishings going "No! Stop that! That's horrible!" I can't not watch it because Sophia and Emilia have faces, and one day they may even have faces in a scene together.

[karatam]

Tyrion saying "Lady Stark" gave me such random feelings because Sansa is such a lady but she's also such a Stark.

Also, I am 34 times more interested in Margaery at this point than in the books, mostly because Natalie Dormer's face just seems to know things.

When Dany and Sansa finally have a scene together, the world will bow to its Queens of Ice and Fire.

[netgirl_y2k]

Also, I am 34 times more interested in Margaery at this point than in the books, mostly because Natalie Dormer's face just seems to know things.

Natalie Dormer has a face?

Jeez, self, eyes up.

I dunno, everytime someone complains about the male gazeyness of the show I nod and go, "Yes, yes, dreadful," and then go straight back to going, "Whee, breasts!"

[miarrow]

Also, curse you show for casting Peter Dinklage as Tyrion, I foresee me having many confusing feelings about the Sansa/Tyrion stuff.

I feel that way most of the time with everything involving Tyrion, but I'm really dreading where this is going. I don't know if I want them to handle it better than the books so I'm not as creeped out or if I don't, because the age difference/power dynamic is SO WRONG (also Tyrion could have just SAID NO THANKS about the marriage).

I don't even know what to do with myself. You mentioned the things I loved (I actually ADORED the Shadow scene, tbh, Carice is doing an amazing job of Melisandre) and none of the things I wanted to beat with a stick, so yes, once again lots of nodding.

I, too, managed to forget the Harrenhal torture. Thank you, show, so much for reminding me. I shall go vomit now.

[netgirl_y2k]

See, I'm not sure Tyrion could have said no thanks to the marriage. I mean, obviously he had more choice than Cersei did when Tywin wanted to remarry her, but I think it's the mark of all the Lannister kids exactly how psychologically damaged and bowled over they are by their father.

I worry, somewhat, about the Sansa/Tyrion stuff. But then I think, it's Peter Dinklage and Sophie Turner having scenes together, it's bound to be amazing. By the way, who exactly did Sophie Turner sell her soul to to get so good so young?

While I thought the shadow scene was lulzy, I am loving Carice, the scene with Davos in the boat "I am a knight of sorts myself" was amazing, Liam too is doing an amazing job. And I say this as someone who reads the books and is perpetually surprised that Stannis and co. aren't dead yet.

The one thing I can say for the Harrenhal torture is that they didn't attempt to make it titillating or torture porn-y. I mean, I knew the show was better than that, but still I was relieved.

[miarrow]

but I think it's the mark of all the Lannister kids exactly how psychologically damaged and bowled over they are by their father.

I guess? But I got a strong vibe that Tyrion was fine with the fact that he had to marry Sansa. He was irritated for her sake, but on his side, he didn't really feel like he was getting the raw end of the deal (except for Shae feelings? I forget where that arc stood). But that's a lot to do with my irritation at Tyrion and his sort of... apologetic attitude for the terrible things he does that everyone else makes him do. Like it wasn't rape of Tysha until she wasn't a whore.

Oh Peter, you make me forget so very hard how much I dislike your character in the books (they also removed so far a lot of the stuffs that bothered me about Tyrion, we'll see if he still goes through his Frank Millering or if Peter handles that better too!)

I mean, I knew the show was better than that, but still I was relieved.

Ehn, I wouldn't go that far. I mean, I agree with regards to that scene (they really didn't show much and everything was really perfectly justified in terms of establishing plot and characters, any time Cersei beats The Mountain on a list of most evil characters I want to punch all the faces) -- but I don't know if the show is better than that, seeing as they added that entirely too graphic, and too unnecissary scene with Joffery and the sex workers.

We get it, kid is messed up and we hate him, we got that from the Sansa scene, it really irriates me that the next scene implies that a) Sansa getting beat on wasn't considered enough to turn the audience, b) we need to sexually exploit these women while we beat them, and c) once again sex workers on this show (and often the books) are treated as props not people.

[netgirl_y2k]

Oh, no, I actually agree completely, what I was trying to say is that the show is good at mostly not making violence titillating, at showing us the blood and entrails and post traumatic stress disorder and how none of this is sexy.

It is fucked up in the extreme when it comes to sex workers. The Joffrey scene didn't actually bother me too much, but that may be because I appreciate having Jack Gleeson on my screen, Joffrey should die in a fire, but somebody get Jack an acting award for his portrayal of the little sociopath. But the scene that really did bother me, it was last week maybe? The peephole in the brothel? What the fuck was that? Didn't tell us anything about the character or serve the already over burdened plot in any way.

[miarrow]

(TOTALLY agree about Jack Gleeson, god, that kid is amazing)

Not that GRRM was aces at writing sex workers anyway, but the show seems to be even worse. The only thing that's been refreshing is Shae. I think the only brothel scene that's had any use so far has been the one Theon was in and the one where Robert's bastard daughter was killed. The rest have been coooooooompletely pointless.

Unless, I can't remember if the Cat/Ned scene took part in the actual brothel. That one can stay. Anything with Cat gets bonus points anyway.

and as a point, it's not so much the nudity I have a problem with, I'm very much enjoying Dany and Margaery and Shae and Jason Momoa's butt especially

[fly_to_dawn]

Yeah, I'm not sure if I'm completely onboard with the format of the show (although I can't really come up with anything that might work better) - it kind of makes me feel like we're not getting a lot of content for some of the characters, esp the ones who have POV chapters in the books. (...I might have a Catelyn bias though).

You know you're surrounded by lunatics when Tywin Lannister rocks up and you go, Oh, thank god, someone sane.

So true, so true. Intentional or not, I also liked the Sansa-Tyrion/Arya-Tywin parallels. The Stark girls continue to give me too many feelings; the Harrenhal set is amazing, I'm going to be clutching my heart when the Ghost of Harrenhal-ing stuff comes up.

[netgirl_y2k]

I'm not sure the revolving POVs are translating especially well to the screen, but like you I can't come up with anything that might work better. The only things I can think of are to pick one main plot for each season (Tyrion in King's Landing seems the obvious one for S2) and relegate everything else to subplot status, or do at least one episode almost exclusively following each distinct group of characters. This feeling, like we're getting a bunch of different stories in five minute "webisode" format, is one I can only see getting worse as the world expands further.

Gosh, I hadn't even noticed the Sansa-Tyrion/Arya-Tywin parallels, but then I can't think too much about the Stark girls otherwise I start flailing madly about the poor, precious she-wolves of winter who are going to kill everyone who has wronged them, everyone!

[fyrdrakken]

See, the five-minute-webisode format I think is kind of the best way to manage it, since there's that whole thing where not everyone's favorite characters are the same, so having an entire episode of this batch of characters, and then another episode about these people, and then the next one about those over there, would lose a lot of people who have to sit through an entire episode of characters they don't really care about without seeing their own favorites even checking in for a month or more. Also there's the thing where this stuff is A) happening concurrently and B) really confusing to everyone involved, so at least the structure is reflecting that.

[netgirl_y2k]

True. I'm not sure how engaged I'd be by an episode entirely about Stannis & co. And there's the thing where a lot of this is just reflecting frustrations I had with the books, like how post book/season 1 Dany exists pretty much entirely in her own self-contained narrative.

[fyrdrakken]

Dany's story arc as compared to the rest of the series is a big freakin' problem, because on the one hand we want her to be a character of central importance but on the other hand the main action is taking place in Westeros and she has absolutely nothing to do with it yet. There's a lot of treading water going on in her storyline, since she needs time for her dragons to mature and for Westeros to dissolve into chaos and for most of the claimants to the Iron Throne to kill each other off -- I briefly considered whether it would have been better from a plotting standpoint to have nothing but vague rumors about the last Targaryen and her dragons filtering back to Westeros and not having her story start being told till the later books when she starts interacting with the Westerosi characters, but no. I don't think it would feel quite as much of a cheat as having Quentyn Martell and that alleged rescued Targaryen turning up in ADwD after four books of not being part of anything that was going on, if there were rumors and reports and various Westerosi parties starting to consider her to be a solution to all their problems if they can get to her before anyone else does -- but from a narrative standpoint it would suck to have nothing but rumors about Dany's activities when she was doing some awesome impressive things like hatching dragons and conquering cities that took place entirely offscreen for at least four or five books out of the series. (And learning what she'd been doing in detail, retrospectively, later in the books, to establish her backstory when she was about to become a major player on the main gameboard, doesn't quite sit well with me. Partly because so much of the narrative structure has been about trying to tell what's going on concurrently, partly because having that backstory dump would slow the flow of the story, partly because the major points would have already been spoiled for the reader.)