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netgirl_y2kToday, at the request of an anon mouse, I shall be rambling about my favourite asoiaf minor characters.
Obviously there's Genna Lannister and Olenna Tyrell, who both leave huge impressions despite having comparatively little page time. Now Westeros is not a world that's being secretly run by little old ladies, and we know this because they'd be doing a damn sight better job of it. Someday fandom is going to decide that it loves me after all, and provide me with a fic where Genna and Olenna hang out, and snark, and bitch about how they're surrounded by idiots.
The thing about asoiaf is that there are so many characters that my favourites really depend on what fics I've read lately, what chapters I've been rereading for fic writing purposes, and, like, the phases of the moon. Recently I have been thinking a lot about the Mormont women.
I mean, there's the obvious reason that they're like a little matriarchy there on Bear Island, except I don't really think that's true, because it's easy to forget that two generations does not a dynasty make, and that Lady Maege only came to power through the unlikely confluence of events that led to Jeor being at the Wall, and Jorah fleeing into exile without issue. Mostly, actually, I forget that Jorah and the Mormont women are members of the same family; really, because I do think of them as this little matriarchy, but also because Jorah is so very much a member of Team Dany that it's hard to remember that he has any other loyalties (even though, hello, traitor). Actually, if Dany takes the Iron Throne, Bear Island is probably being handed straight back to Jorah, that's a thought.
And who inherits Bear Island now anyway? Alysane, of course, now Dacey's dead, but does it revert back to male preference primogeniture after her, even though her son's younger than her daughter? And are Alysane's children even her heirs given that she claims not to have a husband, that her children were fathered by a bear? Relatedly, as Maege is Jeor's sister, how come her daughters are Mormonts at all? Did she marry a cousin with the same last name as her, if she married at all? If you unexpectedly become lord/lady of somewhere do you get to adopt the name of the ruling family (for example, if Harry Hardyng becomes lord of the Eyrie does he become Lord Arryn...)? Is there an exception made for old families that have reached a dead end in the male line; or, more likely I think, are there exceptions for old families who rule some small forgotten part of Westeros, provided you carry on as normal and don't tell anyone?
These are the the things I think about.
Also I think there's sometimes a tendency in fandom to use the Bear Island ladies as an example of how things are different for women in the North, and I don't think that's true either. There are lots of very strong women in the North, to be sure, but apart from the Mormonts, not really in the martial sense.
Well, there's Arya Stark, and maybe Lyanna Stark, depending on where you fall on the Knight of the Laughing Tree thing. My position on that, by the way, is that I want Lyanna to have been the knight of the laughing tree, but while I buy that Lyanna would have been a warrior if she could, and while I buy that she might have known how to swordfight, having browbeat Brandon and Benjen into teaching her in the godswood in secret, Ned being in the Vale and not part of Operation Stark Boys Teach Lyanna How to Duel; but I'm not sure how you could learn to joust well enough to beat even middling knights without it becoming common knowledge, no matter how good a horsewoman you were.
My other opinion on that is that Robert's Rebellion is built out of so many conflicting stories that it doesn't really matter whether Lyanna Stark was the Knight of the Laughing Tree or not.
Fic about the Mormonts that I would like:
-Fic about Dacey Mormont that isn't Robb/Dacey; not that I don't think that there aren't interesting things you could do with this, especially using the king and his knight trope, especially considering that Robb is a boy-king who's chosen to surround himself in battle with warriors more skilled than himself, one of whom is Dacey-- there's a whole puppy love thing. It's more that a lot of the fic that I've tried for this pairing seems to come at it from the angle of giving Robb a more suitably "kickass" love interest than Jeyne Westerling, in ways that I find distasteful.
-Alysane Mormont/Asha Greyjoy, femslash or friendship or anything; I was rereading the Asha chapters of ADWD recently, and how quickly Asha goes from thinking of Alysane as the she-bear who is her jailer, to Aly who is her companion in adversity is delightful to me.
-The one where Arya Stark is fostered on Bear Island.
-The one where the North is an actual historical matriarchy, dating since before the days of Aegon's conquest. Okay, it's not really about the Mormonts, but I want it anyway.
Obviously there's Genna Lannister and Olenna Tyrell, who both leave huge impressions despite having comparatively little page time. Now Westeros is not a world that's being secretly run by little old ladies, and we know this because they'd be doing a damn sight better job of it. Someday fandom is going to decide that it loves me after all, and provide me with a fic where Genna and Olenna hang out, and snark, and bitch about how they're surrounded by idiots.
The thing about asoiaf is that there are so many characters that my favourites really depend on what fics I've read lately, what chapters I've been rereading for fic writing purposes, and, like, the phases of the moon. Recently I have been thinking a lot about the Mormont women.
I mean, there's the obvious reason that they're like a little matriarchy there on Bear Island, except I don't really think that's true, because it's easy to forget that two generations does not a dynasty make, and that Lady Maege only came to power through the unlikely confluence of events that led to Jeor being at the Wall, and Jorah fleeing into exile without issue. Mostly, actually, I forget that Jorah and the Mormont women are members of the same family; really, because I do think of them as this little matriarchy, but also because Jorah is so very much a member of Team Dany that it's hard to remember that he has any other loyalties (even though, hello, traitor). Actually, if Dany takes the Iron Throne, Bear Island is probably being handed straight back to Jorah, that's a thought.
And who inherits Bear Island now anyway? Alysane, of course, now Dacey's dead, but does it revert back to male preference primogeniture after her, even though her son's younger than her daughter? And are Alysane's children even her heirs given that she claims not to have a husband, that her children were fathered by a bear? Relatedly, as Maege is Jeor's sister, how come her daughters are Mormonts at all? Did she marry a cousin with the same last name as her, if she married at all? If you unexpectedly become lord/lady of somewhere do you get to adopt the name of the ruling family (for example, if Harry Hardyng becomes lord of the Eyrie does he become Lord Arryn...)? Is there an exception made for old families that have reached a dead end in the male line; or, more likely I think, are there exceptions for old families who rule some small forgotten part of Westeros, provided you carry on as normal and don't tell anyone?
These are the the things I think about.
Also I think there's sometimes a tendency in fandom to use the Bear Island ladies as an example of how things are different for women in the North, and I don't think that's true either. There are lots of very strong women in the North, to be sure, but apart from the Mormonts, not really in the martial sense.
Well, there's Arya Stark, and maybe Lyanna Stark, depending on where you fall on the Knight of the Laughing Tree thing. My position on that, by the way, is that I want Lyanna to have been the knight of the laughing tree, but while I buy that Lyanna would have been a warrior if she could, and while I buy that she might have known how to swordfight, having browbeat Brandon and Benjen into teaching her in the godswood in secret, Ned being in the Vale and not part of Operation Stark Boys Teach Lyanna How to Duel; but I'm not sure how you could learn to joust well enough to beat even middling knights without it becoming common knowledge, no matter how good a horsewoman you were.
My other opinion on that is that Robert's Rebellion is built out of so many conflicting stories that it doesn't really matter whether Lyanna Stark was the Knight of the Laughing Tree or not.
Fic about the Mormonts that I would like:
-Fic about Dacey Mormont that isn't Robb/Dacey; not that I don't think that there aren't interesting things you could do with this, especially using the king and his knight trope, especially considering that Robb is a boy-king who's chosen to surround himself in battle with warriors more skilled than himself, one of whom is Dacey-- there's a whole puppy love thing. It's more that a lot of the fic that I've tried for this pairing seems to come at it from the angle of giving Robb a more suitably "kickass" love interest than Jeyne Westerling, in ways that I find distasteful.
-Alysane Mormont/Asha Greyjoy, femslash or friendship or anything; I was rereading the Asha chapters of ADWD recently, and how quickly Asha goes from thinking of Alysane as the she-bear who is her jailer, to Aly who is her companion in adversity is delightful to me.
-The one where Arya Stark is fostered on Bear Island.
-The one where the North is an actual historical matriarchy, dating since before the days of Aegon's conquest. Okay, it's not really about the Mormonts, but I want it anyway.
no subject
Date: 2014-12-13 03:35 am (UTC)I think a woman could learn to joust well enough...if she had a brother who she could pretend to be. It's a visors-down sport! So Arya could pretend to be Bran (who has no talent or interest), but Lyanna might have the problem that both her brothers would want to be out there jousting too.
no subject
Date: 2014-12-14 02:37 pm (UTC)Excellent! You know, sometimes I think I nitpick the wrong things in this fandom.
Yes, I think Lyanna could have pulled it off on the day. Like you say, visors down and whatever brother she was pretending to be making himself scarce. I just get stuck on how she would have learned to joust in the first place in secret, with all the practice and special equipment you'd need.
But I'm too enamoured of the idea of a girl jouster to nitpick too closely.
no subject
Date: 2014-12-15 02:05 pm (UTC)And yes, Mormont women are so interesting and badass...
/The thing about asoiaf is that there are so many characters that my favourites really depend on what fics I've read lately, what chapters I've been rereading for fic writing purposes, and, like, the phases of the moon./ - Agreed, there are so may to choose from! And all so interesting and multi-faced!
/exceptions for old families who rule some small forgotten part of Westeros, provided you carry on as normal and don't tell anyone?/ - Eheh, that was probably how things went... *nods*
/but I'm not sure how you could learn to joust well enough to beat even middling knights without it becoming common knowledge, no matter how good a horsewoman you were/ - Hadn't thought of that either. Sigh, I also really want her to be the Knight of the Laughing Tree...
/My other opinion on that is that Robert's Rebellion is built out of so many conflicting stories that it doesn't really matter whether Lyanna Stark was the Knight of the Laughing Tree or not./ - Oh, you mean, like, there's never a single history/truth, there are several different ones, one for each person telling the tale...
/Fic about Dacey Mormont that isn't Robb/Dacey/ - Yesyesyes, I totally agree with everything you say here and I'm so on board for some Dacey gen/character focused fic. BTW, talking about Dacey do you happen to have a particular actress in mind when thinking about her character? I only ask because I tend to fancast like crazy and I'm always so curious about other people's vision. ;)
/The one where Arya Stark is fostered on Bear Island./ - O.M.G. *_* I need this like burning. Give it to me now...
no subject
Date: 2014-12-15 07:50 pm (UTC)Oh, you mean, like, there's never a single history/truth, there are several different ones, one for each person telling the tale...
Yes, exactly. And the story Meera told Bran about the knight of the laughing tree was basically a third hand fairytale version anyway...
BTW, talking about Dacey do you happen to have a particular actress in mind when thinking about her character? I only ask because I tend to fancast like crazy and I'm always so curious about other people's vision. ;)
I tend to always think of Bridget Regan for Dacey, which I blame almost entirely on tumblr and this gifset in particular. I'm easily led, but she's got the height, the statuesque good looks, and at least in Legend of the Seeker mode she looked like she could swing a mace with some stopping power.
no subject
Date: 2014-12-15 09:23 pm (UTC)Actually, your tumblr is delicious and I really love this gifset too: http://netgirl-y2k.tumblr.com/post/105049345559/tyaene-the-women-of-roberts-rebellion *g*
no subject
Date: 2014-12-16 03:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-12-16 04:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-12-16 05:37 pm (UTC)